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Starbuck the Undead

I just saw this article titled For 'Galactica's' Starbuck, a 'death' worse than her fate in LA Times.  Frankly, I'm very disappointed at RDM and DE at the moment.  If what this article is saying and hinting turn out to be right on the mark, Battlestar Galactica will loose some of my esteems.  Not that I wish Starbuck and Katee to be off the show, but blowing up Starbuck like that and return her 3 episodes later saying she not only cheated death, but also found the promised land in the process is just too much for me to accept.

"My goal was to mislead the audience into thinking Kara Thrace was a Cylon," Eick said. Being a Cylon, after all, would mean that there were many copies of her, and therefore Sackhoff could come back as a different version of Starbuck.

DE's words pretty much makes it official that Starbuck is not a cylon, thus closing the door on the only logical explanation for Starbuck's return IMHO.  Also it's been stressed many times in the article that Starbuck the character will return, not just the actress who plays her.  To me this can only mean Starbuck is morphing from her Top Gun-ish character into a Superman-ish character.

But what bothered me the most is the callous way RDM and DE played with fans emotions.  Why are they so hell-bent on tricking the viewers?  As a good story-teller, don't they want the viewers' understandings instead?!

Comments

( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
roadrunnerdm
Apr. 6th, 2007 01:53 am (UTC)
Bummer. It really is sad to find out that people whose integrity you used to trust don't even mind losing their credibility to their fans. Nothing that they say any more can be trusted.

Can we now believe that Kara isn't a Cylon? Or is that just another lie?

As you said, the possibility that Kara might be a Cylon was just about the only credible option remaining to explain Starbuck's return. If she isn't a Cylon, then they're either going to retroactively change the ending to "Maelstrom" or turn her into some immortal creature with no ability to connect to the audience any more.

In a bassakward way, this could be good for Apollo fans...he'll be the only hero-character that anyone can identify with and care about any more. But the damage to the show overall could very well be irreperable, and season 4 will definitely need to be the last.
xwacky
Apr. 9th, 2007 06:51 am (UTC)
Nothing that they say any more can be trusted.

That is the gist of my pique. It cannot be good when I feel this way toward the writers/producers of my favorite TV show.

I'm exasperated at the length to which RDM and DE went to shock the viewers. Frankly, I'm not watching BSG for the shock values--I'm watching it because I enjoy watching a show that has real and believable characters--characters who are not always good and noble, who face real perils, who often make decisions that have life and death consequences. Taking that realism away will affect my enjoyment of the show.

Lately I've been feeling that RDM's brilliance can be both a gift and a hindrance for the show. It certainly was his incredible visions and ideas that got BSG to where it is today. But I noticed that RDM also has a tendency to push the envelop a bit too much--"Wouldn't it be cool if I did this..." type of mentality which I find disconcerting. I'd rather he spends a little less time being cool, a bit more time concentrating on solid character developments.

If [Kara] isn't a Cylon, then they're either going to retroactively change the ending to "Maelstrom" or turn her into some immortal creature with no ability to connect to the audience any more.

That's exactly how I feel. Another possibility is that Kara was saved by some supreme beings (much to my dread--those on the Ship of Light). I hate this outcome because introducing such supreme beings would not only render Kara's struggle in Maelstrom pointless IMHO, it also would make the rest of humans plight less dramatic because they are now protected by these powerful beings who have the power to bring the dead back to the living.
roadrunnerdm
Apr. 10th, 2007 12:44 am (UTC)
I'd rather he spends a little less time being cool, a bit more time concentrating on solid character developments.
Yeah, that was particularly problematic in season 2, but in season 3 it seemed to me that rather than continuing to keep BSG on course as standing out from the crowd in the scifi genre, that he actually rather gave up and began to succumb to all the same cliches and gimmicks as everyone else. First, he took the Cylons from being "humanity's children" and turned them into an alien culture, then he took one of his central characters and yanked her completey out of the realm of reality. The show is becoming less and less like what he established in the mini-series, and more and more like just another installment in the Star Trek franchise.

But what I think is most damaging right now is that the fanbase now knows Ron Moore's limits. It used to be that we all felt that there was no topic or plot twist he wouldn't be bold enough to pursue if it was a realistic portrayal of the situation. {baby killings, banning abortion, suicide bombings!} Now we all know differently. In direct contradiction to all of his claims before season 3 aired, he wouldn't dare to be realistic with a death of one of his central characters. And when you can say of a writer, "he wouldn't dare"...that's NOT a good thing.

And I completely agree with you about the Ship of Lights possibility. The entire premise of the show is based upon a civilization in peril of extinction. Take away the peril...there's no suspense. How exciting can it be to watch Starbuck flying into combat now when you know she isn't risking anything?
liebestrume
Apr. 13th, 2007 03:54 am (UTC)
Cheer up!
Wow! I had no idea you were so miffed about this. You should've called me so I could talk you out of it.

To get you in a little better mood, here are links to two of my new WPs. They are both 1600x1200. I'm particular fond of the first one -- my favorite Neruda sonnet.

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/liebestraume/images/detail/#259/bsg311eojnerudape0.jpg

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/liebestraume/images/detail/#259/bsg111cdsplendorxy1.jpg
xwacky
Apr. 13th, 2007 07:52 pm (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
Thanks dear!

Truth be told, I am quite *miffed* at the suggested possible outcome of Starbuck's return in this article. As you know, I wasn't happy when I heard RDM was going to "kill" Starbuck back when 2nd part of season 3 was in full swing. But I concede that Maelstrom as an episode has grabbed me emotionally. I bawled like a baby, and felt her loss--her death had meant something deeply. I never really doubted that TPTB will bring Katee back in season 4, but I had hoped the producers wouldn't use scifi cliche to resurrect her OLD character.

I always love to talk with you, but you are still welcome to "talk" me out of it here with your comments. ;-)

I love your wallpapers! Especially the Neruda sonnet one!

I do not love you as if you were salt-rose, or topaz,
or the arrow of carnations the fire shoots off.
I love you as certain dark things are to be loved,
in secret, between the shadow and the soul.


I love you as the plant that never blooms
but carries in itself the light of hidden flowers;
thanks to your love a certain solid fragrance,
risen from the earth, lives darkly in my body.

I love you without knowing how, or when, or from where.
I love you straightforwardly, without complexities or pride;
so I love you because I know no other way

than this: where I does not exist, nor you,
so close that your hand on my chest is my hand,
so close that your eyes close as I fall asleep.


--Sonnet XVII by Pablo Neruda

You have chosen a befitting sonnet to describe his love for her here. I don't quite know how you do it all the time, but this is just perfect! I do wish you would post it in your LJ so you can share it with your other LJ friends too!

The Splendor in the Grass one is nice too--you know how much I adore the reference to that scene! Just a tiny suggestion from me--maybe you can play with the font for the text a bit more since the scene is rather playful but the text font is a little austere IMHO.

My final comment is to the icon you used here--I snatched it if you don't mind! :-b I didn't know you were a Chris Martin/Coldplay fan! I adore that song Fix You he reportedly wrote for Gwyneth Paltrow!
liebestrume
Apr. 16th, 2007 10:40 pm (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
Thanks for the suggestion and keep them coming; after all, you are my only critique. ;)

You have a good point about that text thingie in Splendor. I was kinda looking for the perfect font but gave up eventually. Part of the reason was that I didn't like how the WP came out overall, not enough vibrancy (whic is kind of what I was going for). I may have to redo the whole thing when I figure it all out. I kinda rushed this one, because I did the Neruda one first and that got me all angsty, and so I needed something to cheer myself up.

Speaking of cheering up, don't take what Eick said too seriously. If I felt anything, it was amusement. The way he went on about it was like a 12-yr old who *thought* he pulled a stunt on the adults. The reality, I think, was that most viewers probably never thought Starbuck would truly die -- come one, who really dies on a SciFi show? :)

The only people this elaborate ruse had aimed to fool were the more "devoted" online fans, who searched high and low for spoilers, and analyzed every words out of the mouth of anyone reltaed to the show. I think TPTB were miffed that spoilers were leaked and spread like wild fire towards the end of the season, so they set out to teach us a lesson. Little did they know most of us weren't fooled by "Starbuck is dead" at all. 'Cos we geeks are smart!
xwacky
Apr. 16th, 2007 11:40 pm (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
I didn't like how the WP came out overall, not enough vibrancy

Hmmm... Do you mean color-wise? I guess I do see what you mean. However, I kinda like the pale and "shimmery-ness" of the overall appearance. It gives the scene a dreamy and fancifulness that are well suited IMHO. I also like how the center part of the image jumps out at the viewer.

The reality, I think, was that most viewers probably never thought Starbuck would truly die -- come one, who really dies on a SciFi show? ... The only people this elaborate ruse had aimed to fool were the more "devoted" online fans... so they set out to teach us a lesson.

That's exactly why I'm miffed. I've come to see BSG not as just another scifi show. I wish TPTB would not sacrifice the integrity of their original mission statement just to teach a group of fans a lesson. I still wish they had not "kill" Starbuck in that fashion to keep the buzz going. I guess I should wait until next season to see how they handle the story, but I confess I'm a bit skeptical at this point on their ability of avoiding the scifi cliche. *sigh*
liebestrume
Apr. 17th, 2007 12:09 am (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
Hmmm... Do you mean color-wise? I guess I do see what you mean. However, I kinda like the pale and "shimmery-ness" of the overall appearance. It gives the scene a dreamy and fancifulness that are well suited IMHO. I also like how the center part of the image jumps out at the viewer.

The dreaminess was intended, because that section of the poem was about a moment in time that Wordsworth (and hence his eraders) looked fondly back upon. And, in some ways, that's how Lee & Kara's story goes. But "splendor" also has an element of brilliance, which this WP is seriously lack.

Gods, I am taking my leisure pursuit way too seriously. Can you say obsessive nature?

That's exactly why I'm miffed. I've come to see BSG not as just another scifi show. I wish TPTB would not sacrifice the integrity of their original mission statement just to teach a group of fans a lesson. I still wish they had not "kill" Starbuck in that fashion to keep the buzz going. I guess I should wait until next season to see how they handle the story, but I confess I'm a bit skeptical at this point on their ability of avoiding the scifi cliche. *sigh*

Well, I don't think they "killed" Kara just to teach the fans a lesson. I meant to say Eick used this opportunity to do that, given the sequence of events.

In some ways, all TV shows would use cliches in one way or the other, but what differentiates a good show from the bad ones is, IMHO, whether or not the cliche serves to tell an engaging story. For instance, what exactly is FTL? Given what we know of colonial technology, it's doubtful they can generate *and* control the kind of energy required to accomplish such a feat, even if it's scentifically fesible. But it's part of the construct of this universe, and we have suspended our disbelief because it serves the story.

For now, I think it's too early to tell about "Starbuck the undead." It all depends on how she is brought back to life. Word on the street is that RDM always liked the "ship of light" story arc in the TOS, so maybe he is looking to "re-imagine" that. Personally, I don't like that idea 'cos "devine intervention" always seems to be a cheat trick. If humans and Cylons are to co-exit and, dare I say, reconciliate, then they need to figure out their shyt on their own. But what do I know?

Guess we'll see.
xwacky
Apr. 18th, 2007 07:33 am (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
Meant to reply you earlier, but I just couldn't find the time! .

But "splendor" also has an element of brilliance, which this WP is seriously lack.

Well, I wouldn't say that! I understand your desire in wanting to capture more vibrancy for the WP. Now I see you are possibly facing a dilemma here because vibrancy and dreaminess are at odds with each other IMO. Just a thought from me--I do think the "shimmery" effect the WP has add certain brilliance that conveys "splendor" well. So maybe you can emphasize on this "shimmery" appearance to reflect the "dewiness" here? Also, I really like the background image where their bodies (especially Lee's) are in-motion. Images like this capture another kind of "vibrancy"--the vivaciousness of youth, I guess. Hehe, I'm rambling again. I have no doubt that you'll make this WP brilliant!

Gods, I am taking my leisure pursuit way too seriously. Can you say obsessive nature?

Never fear my dear! And this whole journal is me feeding my obsessive nature!!

Well, I don't think they "killed" Kara just to teach the fans a lesson.

Maybe not, but the cynical side of me is thinking they "killed" her to get the buzz going for the season finale and the ensuing hiatus.

In some ways, all TV shows would use cliches in one way or the other, but what differentiates a good show from the bad ones is, IMHO, whether or not the cliche serves to tell an engaging story.

Very good point! FTL is a good example. So is the entire race of "killer robots"--Cylons in a way can be viewed as the cliched evil robots that often exist in scifi stories--even their resemblance to the humans is not exactly new. But the Cylons do serve to tell a very engaging story and therefore we don't feel them being a cliche--at least I don't.

However, the "undying ability" of the characters in scifi is a bit different issue--I tend to view it as being a cliche because it lessens the storytelling by taking away the tension that exists otherwise. If I know that these characters are going to survive no matter what, I can care much less of the decisions they have to make.

For now, I think it's too early to tell about "Starbuck the undead." It all depends on how she is brought back to life.

I agree. Now that I have more time to consider this, I do see it's premature for me to "huff and puff" at this moment.

Word on the street is that RDM always liked the "ship of light" story arc in the TOS

I'm confused about this. I'm pretty sure that I've read interviews of him earlier where he specifically said that the only aspect of the TOS he liked was the Pegasus story line, and even that, he didn't like the whole thing. I thought he had previously denied that he would do a "ship of light" for his re-imagined story. But who knows, maybe he changed his mind...

Personally, I don't like that idea 'cos "devine intervention" always seems to be a cheat trick. If humans and Cylons are to co-exit and, dare I say, reconciliate, then they need to figure out their shyt on their own.

Well said! And you know a lot!
liebestrume
Apr. 18th, 2007 04:06 pm (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
Meant to reply you earlier, but I just couldn't find the time!

You are too busy to talk about BSG? The horror!!!

Also, I really like the background image where their bodies (especially Lee's) are in-motion. Images like this capture another kind of "vibrancy"--the vivaciousness of youth, I guess.

Thanks! I, too, was relatively happy with the composition of this piece.

I agree. Now that I have more time to consider this, I do see it's premature for me to "huff and puff" at this moment.

Good! We have a long hiatus ahead of us, and I don't want to see you getting upset every time you think about how S3 ended. So, mission accomplished!

Oh, btw, do you still want to go to the DragonCon? That'll cheer you up some more, I'm sure. :)
xwacky
Apr. 18th, 2007 04:45 pm (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
I don't want to see you getting upset every time you think about how S3 ended.

Upset? Hardly! Especially since how happy I am with the way Lee is developed!

Oh, btw, do you still want to go to the DragonCon?

YES!YES!YES! Are we going?! That'll definitely cheer me up MORE!
liebestrume
Apr. 18th, 2007 11:35 pm (UTC)
Re: Cheer up!
Are we going?! That'll definitely cheer me up MORE!
Let's plan on it!
( 12 comments — Leave a comment )

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